Shall We Dance? (Part 2)

If It's Not Fun for Everyone, It's Not Fun
(all italics are mine)

"Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall." Romans 14:19-21

(James Hunt's thoughts on this passage)
"He further instructed that we should all "pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another (v.19)...and that "it is not good to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles [context = stumbles means causes someone to stumble into sin] (v.21).Paul didn't say that he quit eating meat or that he quit drinking wine. That wasn't his point. The point - don't use your freedoms to another's spiritual detriment.Spiritual detriment / hindrance is the the issue on the table...not the comfort level of subjective preferences." James Hunt

I (Angela) am wondering about "pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another." (v.19).

Here's a thought...

"Everything is permissible", but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible", but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others. 1 Corinthians 10:23-24

or said another way:

"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth." 1 Corinthians 10:23-24

John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

"All things are lawful for me"
All sorts of food are lawful to be eaten, every creature of God is good, there is nothing common or unclean in itself, polluted or polluting; and so things offered to idols may be lawfully eaten, but not as such, or in an idol's temple, or before a weak brother; to do which is contrary to the honour of God, and the edification of the saints: and therefore

"all things are not expedient;"
to be done always, and in all places, and before all persons. The apostle suggests, that though they might be lawful to him, and he might make use of his liberty in eating them; yet they might not be expedient, or of service, but on the contrary hurtful to others; and which therefore ought to be judged a sufficient reason for the omission of them:

"all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not;"
though things of an indifferent nature may be lawfully used, yet they do not always tend to the edification of others, which should be consulted; and when this is the case, they ought to be disused. This is observed in answer to an objection taken from the doctrine of Christian liberty, allowing the free use of all the creatures, and disengaging men from an observance of the distinction of meats and drinks which the apostle grants; and yet argues from his own example, and the edification of the saints, that this is not always to be closely pursued; but believers should forego what they have a right to use, when the peace and welfare of their fellow Christians require it.

Matthew Henry
He (Paul)gives a caution against abusing our liberty in lawful things. That may be lawful which is not expedient, which will not edify. A Christian must not barely consider what is lawful, but what is expedient, and for the use of edification. A private Christian should do so even in his private conduct. He must not seek his own only, but his neighbour's wealth. He must be concerned not to hurt his neighbour, nay, he must be concerned to promote his welfare; and must consider how to act so that he may help others, and not hinder them in their holiness, comfort, or salvation. Those who allow themselves in every thing not plainly sinful in itself will often run into what is evil by accident, and do much mischief to others. Every thing lawful in itself to be done is not therefore lawfully done. Circumstances may make that a sin which in itself is none. These must be weighed, and the expediency of an action, and its tendency to edification, must be considered before it be done. Note, The welfare of others, as well as our own convenience, must be consulted in many things we do, if we would do them well.

Here are the bookends to the Romans 14 passage used at the beginning of this blog.

"Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convincedfood isno foodis unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

It is a general belief among Southern Baptists that social dancing, with all its trappings, is wrong. I plan to talk a little about this in my next post. But notice that Paul does not say, "Try to talk your brother out of this belief." Sometimes things are sins for one and not for another. And in our denomination, as a general rule, people don't approve.

Look at the words of Matthew Henry again:

"Those who allow themselves in every thing not plainly sinful in itself will often run into what is evil by accident, and do much mischief to others."

So, if it is fine for James and a group of the Singles in our church to dance, meaning that they do not feel that this opens the door to other naughty behavior for them (and that could absolutely be the case), I believe that these words from Paul apply:

So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. Romans 14:22 NIV

said another way,

You may have the faith to believe that there is nothing wrong with what you are doing, but keep it between yourself and God. Blessed are those who do not condemn themselves by doing something they know is all right. Romans 14:22 NLT

or like this,

What you believe about these things should be kept between you and God. You are fortunate, if your actions don't make you have doubts. Romans 14:22 CEV


So here is a question. We all (James, Rick, Kenny, Kristina, me) belong to the Southern Baptist denomination. As such, we can expect a few things (at least right this minute)
1. No wine at the Wednesday night dinner
2. No speaking in tongues at the Sunday morning service
3. No "falling out" in the Spirit.
4. No "night of miracles" healing service.
5. No praying for the baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues.
6. No snake handling.
7. No sprinkling baptism.
8. No prophetic word by church members in a worship service.
9. No social dances (see first sentence of the Oklahoma Baptist University position on dancing and Southern Baptists)
10. (if you have others, post them, and I will add)

If any of these were to change, it would seem that (because we and a few thousand other people joined Council Road Baptist Church with the understanding that it would have the values held in most Southern Baptist Churches), everyone should be made aware.

As I have stated before, when the CUBE was in the "idea" stage (and we were being asked to pay for it, as a gift to the community), there was no mention to the congregation that it would ever be used for social dances.

Maybe a Sunday night meeting that was well advertised to all with opportunities for questions after the presentation would be in order.(??)

In fact, if there was going to be a change in the character of our denomination (and it was obviously beneficial to the entire body to do so), it would seem that maybe a meeting with BGCO members would be a good idea. Not to get a "yea"or "nay", as I think our churches are run autonomously, but for support, as I think it would be an uphill climb to convince some of the pillars of the church that this was a good idea.

I found this(below) kind of interesting, when I was trying to get the real scoop on the topic of dancing in our denominations.

Christ Centered Colleges and Universities in Our Area

Southern Nazarene University
"Our sponsoring denomination, the Church of the Nazarene, has established principles designed to develop Christian character and promote growth in holy living. Therefore, these serve as guidelines for community life at SNU. Specifically, entertainment (including media productions) that promotes the violent, the sensual, the pornographic, the profane, or the occultic should be avoided.
Also included is an expectation that SNU students avoid social dancing. SNU and its member organizations are not to provide, sponsor, or conduct social dances on or off campus. Attendance at establishments or activities at which such behavior is the focus is prohibited."(SNU Student Handbook)

Oklahoma Baptist University
"(6)Dancing
The traditional position of Oklahoma Southern Baptist churches is reflected by University policy which prohibits dancing on campus. University organizations may not sponsor dances off campus." The Green Book- OBU Student Handbook

Oklahoma Christian University
"Many expectations of OC students are biblically based. Others expectations, while not necessarily based on scripture, are necessary for the good of the entire community. These expectations enable the community to function and operate peaceably and in harmony with each other and the mission of the University.

Undergraduate students are especially susceptible to certain temptations in today's society. For the sake of a healthy lifestyle and their Christian influence (Philippians 2:3-4; Romans 14:19-22a) we believe that students should completely avoid these temptations at all times and in all places.We take the following expectations quite seriously and are diligent in enforcing them on campus or at any University-related event."

"9.Dancing on campus or at University sanctioned activities."

These college students are not supposed to be dancing socially. I do not know whether the Singles Ministry in our church is inviting the University students, but after looking at our church website, it is evident that the University Ministry falls under Singles.

If this activity, being held at our church, is beneficial to the Body of Christ, maybe our church leadership should go before these Christ Centered schools and explain their position, so that the students would have the opportunity to participate in this church activity.

Again, I will say that I think dancing is a gray area. I think it is not an individual choice (a freebie from God), but something that is between the individual and God. Apparently Paul felt the same way when he said (about issues of liberty):

"So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God." Romans 14:22a

If, after thinking about it, praying about it, searching out the Scriptures, a person feels that God has given His blessing on that person attending social dances with Christ centered sacred and secular music (or any other kind of dance, I guess), he/she should be able to attend such an animal at an institution where the members believe it is beneficial and edifying for all Believers to attend and dance in the spirit of fellowship. (All Believers who have not signed a code of conduct that ways they aren't supposed to dance socially.)

I think that this was the situation when the dance was at the Warr Acres Community Center. I don't understand why it is now being sponsored by our church, at the CUBE community center. Maybe they should have the dance there...

Coming Soon!
Shall We Dance? Part 3

Shall We Dance? Part 1

OK...for many of you, this will be a dry and boring read. Sorry about that. I was going to post it on James's site, but the blog (Ex-Fundamentalist Goes Dancing) seems to be gone. The original post that sparked this discussion is here.

So I am posting it here.

I think James has alot of Bible knowledge, that he is fun, that he knows how to reach people for the Lord.

I think that the singles who would come to the Christ Centered Singles Dance are grown-up Christian people. I don't think that they are coming to these dances as a pickup event. To the best of my knowledge, there is nothing unseemly at the Christian dances in Warr Acres and it would be reasonable thinking that we could expect the same at the CUBE.

I think all the people who are heading this up are well-intentioned people and that they are not trying to "put anything over" on anybody.

I want those of you who fit into one of the above categories to know that I am not mad at you. I am not trying to ruin your fun. I am not judging you and I hope you will not judge me.

What I will say is that having a social dance on the church property runs all over me...for a number of reasons...and I am trying to sort them out.

So...here is the first (yes, I said first) installment of "Why I Think We Should Not Have a Dance at the Cube".

I have taken all the verses that I could find regarding dancing and looked them up. Next, I looked up "dancing" in Strong's for each verse...
Then I put the verses under each "dance" word catagory, so that there would be some kind of order. In doing that, I found that there was not any real benefit in knowing whether the dance word in Hebrew was "chuwl" or "machowlah"...so no real insight there.
Finally I made comments under the verses...

If I was more creative/computer-blog savvy I would have used different colors, fonts, etc for the different parts...sorry..I'm just not that good.

(Revisory note...color added for your reading pleasure:-)!)

And a one, and a two....


MACHOWLAH- (STRONG'S 04246) dancing, dance (Beit Tehila-a dance company/dances)

1. "Then Miriam the prophetess, Aaron's sister, took a tambourine in her hand, and all the women followed her, with tambourines and dancing. 21 Miriam sang to them:
"Sing to the LORD,
for he is highly exalted.
The horse and its rider
he has hurled into the sea." Exodus 15:20-21

This was a dance by the women only, a spontaneous act of celebration and joy, to praise the Lord...("Sing to the Lord...")

2. "As they returned home, after David had killed the Philistine, the women poured out of all the villages of Israel singing and dancing, welcoming King Saul with tambourines, festive songs, and lutes. In playful frolic the women sang,
Saul kills by the thousand,
David by the ten thousand!" 1 Samuel 18:6-7 (also 1 Samuel 21:11 and 1 Samuel 20:5)

This was a dance by the women only, a spontaneous act of celebration and joy for Saul (the king provided by the Lord as was spoken through Samuel) and David (the giant killer), who had killed Goliath with God's help.

3. "Jephthah came home to Mizpah. His daughter ran from the house to welcome him home dancing to tambourines! She was his only child. He had no son or daughter except her. When he realized who it was, he ripped his clothes, saying, "Ah, dearest daughter, I'm dirt. I'm despicable. My heart is torn to shreds. I made a vow to GOD and I can't take it back!" Judges 11:34-35

Jehpthah was dancing in celebration for the return of her father, at their home.

4. "[ Friends ] Come back, come back, O Shulammite; come back, come back, that we may gaze on you! [ Lover ] Why would you gaze on the Shulammite as on the dance of Mahanaim?" Song of Solomon 6:13

(Mahanaim-two camps, a place near Jabbok, beyond Jordan River, where Jacob was met by the "angels of God," and where he divided his retinue into "two hosts" on his return from Padan-aram (Gen. 32:2).)

This is not actually a reference to the dancing of the Shulaamite or a dance of Jacob, as far as I can tell...if this is the deciding factor in having dances at a Baptist church property, let me know and I'll look at it some more.:-))

5. "When Aaron saw this, he built an altar in front of the calf and announced, "Tomorrow there will be a festival to the LORD." 6 So the next day the people rose early and sacrificed burnt offerings and presented fellowship offerings. Afterward they sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry."

"When Moses approached the camp and saw the calf and the dancing, his anger burned and he threw the tablets out of his hands, breaking them to pieces at the foot of the mountain." Exodus 32:5-6,19

This is actually all the people..not just the women. And notice that it is happening under the heading of a festival to the Lord. Aaron said it was
to the Lord (Strong's 3068-Jehovah)...
to honor the Lord....
The party line was that this was for the Lord, yet they used a worldly outlet,
focusing on a pagan symbol..

It was anything but honoring to the Lord...it was the type of thing the pagan culture would have used and done.

MACHOWL-dance, dancing (STRONG'S 4234)

1. "You turned my wailing into dancing; you removed my sackcloth and clothed me with joy," Psalm 30:11

This is obviously a tribute to God as a reason for the dance.

2. "Let them praise his name with dancing and make music to him with tambourine and harp." Psalm 149:3

Praise God's name. Dancing to the Lord. Playing music to the Lord. The focus is the Lord.

3. "Praise him with tambourine and dancing, praise him with the strings and flute," Psalm 150:4

Again, praising God with the instruments and dancing. Not just any old words or focus. This does appear to mean everyone (men and women, but tradition holds that they probably didn't dance together), but it is a praising of God.

4. "I will build you up again and you will be rebuilt, O Virgin Israel. Again you will take up your tambourines and go out to dance with the joyful." Jeremiah 31:4

Again, this is a dance of the joyful for what God has done for them.

5. "Then maidens will dance and be glad, young men and old as well. I will turn their mourning into gladness; I will give them comfort and joy instead of sorrow." Jeremiah 31:13 (see below)

"Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, both young men and old together: for I will turn their mourning into joy, and will comfort them, and make them rejoice from their sorrow." Jeremiah 31:13

Although this could be a dance-for-all (everyone together) it would appear that the men were dancing together as were the women dancing together. This was to the Lord, in praise to Him for turning their sorrow to joy.

6. "...joy is gone from our hearts; our dancing has turned to mourning." Lamentations 5:15

The dancing that had been performed out of joy was gone...no reason to dance because things were so bad.

CHUWL (as it pertains to dancing) (STRONG'S 02342) -to dance 2) to twist, writhe 3) to whirl, whirl about

1. "'But look, there is the annual festival of the LORD in Shiloh, to the north of Bethel, and east of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem, and to the south of Lebonah.'20 So they instructed the Benjamites, saying, 'Go and hide in the vineyards 21 and watch. When the girls of Shiloh come out to join in the dancing, then rush from the vineyards and each of you seize a wife from the girls of Shiloh and go to the land of Benjamin.' Judges 21:19-21

(This was probably a part of the Feast of the Tabernacles.)

(A quote from Commentary and Critical Explanatory on the Whole Bible)
"The dance was anciently a part of the religious observance. It was done on festive occasions, as it is still in the East, not in town, but in the open air, in some adjoining field, the women being by themselves."

CHAGAG (STRONG'S 02287) to hold a feast, hold a festival, make pilgrimage, keep a pilgrim-feast, celebrate, dance, stagger 1) to keep a pilgrim-feast 2) to reel

1. "And when he had brought David down, behold, the raiders (Amalekites-men) were spread abroad over all the land, eating and drinking and dancing because of all the great spoil they had taken from the land of the Philistines and from the land of Judah." 1 Samuel 30:16

Not that it matters:-), because they weren't part of God's people, but this was a men-only dance (not meant in a sexual way), and obviously not to God, since they were Amalekites.

ORCHEOMAI (STRONG'S 3738) to dance

1. "Herodias's daughter provided the entertainment, dancing for the guests. She swept Herod away. In his drunken enthusiasm, he promised her on oath anything she wanted." Matthew 14:6-7 (also Mark 6:22)

(Commentary by Matthew Henry)

"Here we have, (1.) The humouring of Herod by the damsel's dancing upon a birth-day. It seems, Herods birth-day was kept with some solemnity; in honour of the day, there must needs be, as usual, a ball at court; and, to grace the solemnity, the daughter of Herodias danced before them; who being the queen's daughter, it was more than she ordinarily condescended to do. Note, Times of carnal mirth and jollity are convenient times for carrying on bad designs against God's people."

"Carnal mirth"...wow...Well, for those of you young pups who don't know what "carnal" means, here's the definition from Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary:

Carnal-Enjoyments that minister to the wants and desires of man's animal nature are so called (Rom. 15:27; 1 Cor.9:11).

2. " 'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge and you did not mourn.'" Matthew 11:17 (also Luke 7:32)

While this, of course, is not really about
children,
flute playing,
dirge singing,
dancing
and mourning,
it is interesting that when Jesus elaborates on this story, he talks about eating and drinking, not dancing...saying,

"The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners.'" But wisdom is proved right by her actions." Matthew 11:19

The point here is not dancing. It is that whether it was an approach like John the Baptist (austere) or Jesus (open, loving) people always had some kind of criticism.

KARAR (STRONG'S 3769) (Pilpel) to whirl, dance a) whirling, dancing (participle)

1. "David, wearing a linen ephod, danced before the LORD with all his might," 2 Samuel 6:14(also 2 Samuel 6:16)

One person (David) dancing before the Lord in spontenaity.

PACACH (STRONG'S 6452) to pass over, spring over a) (Qal) to pass over b) (Piel) to skip, pass over, to limp

1. "So they (the priests---men) took the bull given them and prepared it. Then they called on the name of Baal from morning till noon. "O Baal, answer us!" they shouted. But there was no response; no one answered. And they danced around the altar they had made." 1 Kings 18:26

Men only, dancing in praise to their pagan god.

RAQAD (STRONG'S 7540) to skip about a) (Qal) to skip about b) (Piel) to dance, leap c) (Hiphil) to make to skip

1. "Why do the wicked live on,
growing old and increasing in power?
8 They see their children established around them,
their offspring before their eyes.
9 Their homes are safe and free from fear;
the rod of God is not upon them.
10 Their bulls never fail to breed;
their cows calve and do not miscarry.
11 They send forth their children as a flock;
their little ones dance about." Job 21:8-11

2. "...a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance," Ecclesiastes 3:4

Raqad...Happy skipping....
The Job passage is speaking of wicked people, so I guess the dancing of the children is not "praise to God"...

And the second passage seems to just be a collection of opposites and the seasons for each...

CHOROS (STRONG'S 5525) a band (of dancers and singers), circular dance, a dance, dancing

"Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing." Luke 15:25

This does not ever say that it is just women dancing...
nor does it say that the dancing is to praise God...
It is a family celebratory event in the father's home, however.

Not on the church property

In a nutshell, when the Bible refers to God's people dancing, it usually is referring to the women. Jesus may have danced but it doesn't seem likely... and He never said He did.

It does not seem to me that the Bible is silent on this issue at all. It gives many invitations for dancing as a praise to God with Him as the focus.
Singing to Him.
Dancing to Him.
Playing intruments with Him in mind.

Then there are instances of dancing within the family. Children dancing for the parents...A dance celebration in a home to welcome a long lost boy.

And finally, the examples of dancing
...with impure motives as Salome danced for the king to get what she wanted.
...Or the Israelites...God's people...dancing in praise to another god.
...Did they think they were dancing to God, as Aaron had told them?
...Or did they know that they were participating in a pagan ritual?
...Or... did they think it was kind of...both?
I don't know how you could look at a golden calf and focus on God. But more on that later.

The instances that refer to people dancing in praise of another "god" (whatever occupies one's time and thoughts and it could be anything...drinking, immorality, lost love, your new pick-up) or for the approval of men, had results that were not God-honoring.

But skipping seems to be OK:-).

Please understand that if these social dances are held off the property and are not sponsored by our church, I have much less issue with them. Then I would not have to explain to my children why they could not attend a church sponsored event (figuring that if people buy into the idea of Singles Dances at the church, dances for the Youth will follow).

The Bible does not say "Don't dance socially."

And on issues such as these, we (the grown-ups) are given freedom to make up our own minds.

But if it is a gray area, why have it on the church property?

COMING SOON...

two more posts dealing with this idea of a dance at the Cube and why I think it is not a good idea.

Thursday Thirteen #3

Thirteen Things That Make Me Feel Great About the Day



1. Getting my nails done
2. Getting my "new (hair) growth" covered
3. Reading a magazine from cover to cover
4. A Diet Coke with lime from Sonic
5. Clean sheets on the bed
6. No sniping between my children
7. Food on the grill
8. New sparkly jewelry (real or fake)
9. Knowing I am going out on a date with Greg
10 Writing a new song/getting one recorded
11. A day/weekend with nothing on the schedule
12. Talking with my best friend
13. Watching Amazing Race

Links to other Thursday Thirteens!



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The purpose of the meme is to get to know everyone who participates a little bit better every Thursday. Visiting fellow Thirteeners is encouraged! If you participate, leave the link to your Thirteen in others comments. It’s easy, and fun! Be sure to update your Thirteen with links that are left for you, as well! I will link to everyone who participates and leaves a link to their 13 things. Trackbacks, pings, comment links accepted!

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Celebration:-)

Well, today is the last day of school for my kids...I will be out all day at assemblies for them, which means I can't work on my "dancing dissertation", but there's always tomorrow. The kids are wayyyy beyond excited, but also I catch them being kind of melancholy,too. Guess change is like that...if it's good, you look forward to it, but if what was going on before the change was good, that makes you a little sad. Feelings are a complicated thing, sometimes...

Anyway, for anyone who was wondering, the Christ Centered Singles Dance is on the calendar at the church...June 17th....And if all goes well, I am hoping to have something here on Friday...I am working toward that end, anyway. Keep checking back if you are interested.

No Amazing Race tomorrow:-(...but last week was exciting....you know, it doesn't always work out in a nice neat package where the naughty people lose, but when it does, it's kind of fun...:-)

Another Meme

I may not continue any of these, and frankly this week, I am working on my response to James Hunt on his blog for the dance at the Cube, so I may not have alot of spare time to give thoughts on my own blog....but I wanted you to know I am still here...and this was the question for today on the Monday Madness site:

How many simple things have you learned to appreciate more, for one reason or another? Please list them and feel free to elaborate on each.

1. My mom...when I was young, I just kind of took her for granted. Now that I'm a Mom (and a woman) I see how great she is and how lacking I really am. She has a really helpful, gentle spirit and an even temper. And she is wise.

2. My faith...As I look at this world and all the crazy ideas out there, it is comforting to know that God never changes...that His Word never changes...

3. Pets...we have had them and not had them, and while they are alot of work, there are times when you just want to sit in a chair with your dog or cat. It is comforting and relaxing.

4. An evening/weekend at home with all of my family present and no agenda. Seems we always have something to do or something to get ready to do.

5. Using my talents...sometimes I don't get to use them, and when I can again it always feels great.

Have you got any of these?

Friday Feast

Trying this today...thought it might be fun...

Feast Ninety-Four

Appetizer
What is the last thing you had to have repaired?
The catalytic converter on the van.

Soup
If someone gave you $2,000 with the stipulation that you had to spend half of it on yourself and give the rest to charity, where would you spend the $1,000 and which charity would receive your remaining $1,000?

Just for me???? Probably a week at The Greenhouse Spa in Arlington Texas. I went there for a weekend once, and it was probably the most pampered and self absorbed I have ever been.

We have a friend who is a missionary...he only goes places when he gets the money or someone's mileage points or something...but he does impact alot of people...so I would probably give it there.

Salad
What is one of your favorite songs from the 1980s?
You're the Inspiration-Chicago (swoon:-))

Main Course
You enter a pet store. Which section do you go to first?
Puppies...of course...is there another place to look first?

Dessert
On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being highest, how athletic are you?
-3 :-)

If you want to try this, too...the link up site is here

Thursday Thirteen #2

Thirteen Things that I Have Tried in the Past and Would Like to be Proficient at/Consisten With



1….Getting everything clean at once
2. Putting away decorations once a season has passed.
3. Calligraphy
4. Knitting/Crochet
5. Original music stuff...working my music program, playing piano by ear
6. Landscaping our yard
7. Quilting
8. Scrapbooking
9. Bible/Bible culture maven
10.Getting my own cool signature "look" that is unique and current, but doesn't make people roll their eyes because I am trying to look too young.
11. Cake Decorating
12. Meal rotation for the entire year (I could add other things, but then it would be a no brainer to grocery shop, cook, etc, if I needed it to be).
13. Being in the moment with my family.




Links to other Thursday Thirteens!


Get the Thursday Thirteen code here!


The purpose of the meme is to get to know everyone who participates a little bit better every Thursday. Visiting fellow Thirteeners is encouraged! If you participate, leave the link to your Thirteen in others comments. It’s easy, and fun! Be sure to update your Thirteen with links that are left for you, as well! I will link to everyone who participates and leaves a link to their 13 things. Trackbacks, pings, comment links accepted!

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Remember to Leave a Comment:-)

Pet Peeve Wednesday

Man, wouldn't THAT be great? Thinking to yourself every week, as things happen, "Ooooo, just wait until Pet Peeve Wednesday...then I'm gonna cut loose with this one!" :-):-):-)

Actually, I thought about doing a Procrastination Wednesday...FlyLady does that. Maybe if you fulfill your thing that you procrastinated, you could air a pet peeve as a reward...Have to think about that.

But this week, I don't have time...I am preaching to the choir, I mean, leading the choir this evening in the rehearsal...and I need to have some time to get myself in a real knot about it. So this will just be quick.

"As my apprentice, you're never fired".....God

OK...I have a couple of issues with this...

1. God didn't say that. Why do people always think they need to come up with something clever to "sell" God? Here's another..

"Don't make me come down there"...God

What does THAT mean? That we could make God do something? And as a believer, I WANT Him to come down here...but I digress.

2. Here is the definition of an apprentice.

1. One bound by legal agreement to work for another for a specific amount of time in return for instruction in a trade, art, or business.
2. One who is learning a trade or occupation, especially as a member of a labor union.
3. A beginner; a learner.

So what are we apprenticing for? God's job?

I get the connection to the TV show...I just think it's a weak link, and why not just say

"There has never been the slightest doubt in my mind that the God who started this great work in you would keep at it and bring it to a flourishing finish on the very day Christ Jesus appears." Phillipians 1:6

You know...a real thing from God's Word...

Amazing Race tonight!

A Little Whine Before Dinner

So did you come here yesterday wondering where I was?:-) (Don't answer that...) Since there are a mere 8 days until school lets out, my children decided that they hadn't spent enough sick-time at home and needed to get some more in before May 24.

This is actually a sickness that I think I wouldn't mind having, if I had to be sick.

Fever
Headache
A little discomfort in the eyes
Tired

Where is the coughing?
The upchucking?
The general achiness?
The 25 gallons of mucus that seems to endlessly pour from one's nose?

I am signing up for this one next year...because with the fever, it's undeniable, but there's no other real downside.

So, in case I forget to say so tomorrow, don't forget that the Amaaaaaaaazing Race is on (tomorrow...not today)....The BIG FINALE! I will be at choir (and you probably should be, too) when it really shows, so I am going to set my VCR. It will be a melancholy evening, since there are two teams that I would have liked to win competing. And that icky Eric and Jeremy.

Since I did the Thursday Thirteen last week (Thursday;-)), I have visited a few other blogs...and I must say that while there are some that are a little more ...something....than I would want, there are some really pretty ones...interesting.....with features...like

100 things about me

Wouldn't you like to know 100 things about me?
(actually, some of these were good...)

Or places where you can look up all of my blogs on a certain subject....like dancing;-)...or all of my Thursday Thirteens...

I don't know if these are "pay" blogs, but maybe...When summer comes (for us in 8 days) I may have to investigate it. Or work on Vacation Bible School stuff...which is the first full week of June.

I went to a field trip last Friday...The Track and Field for the elementary school. My son, whom I will be referring to as "Darth", because of his love for Star Wars (I wanted to use "Handsome", which is kind of his Mom-given nickname, but he can read, and if he ever looks here, I would be in big trouble...but just know I am thinking that in my heart. Wish he liked Hans Solo...then I could just call him "Hans"...oh well, moving on.)is in the 4th grade, and being with those parents is not too bad. We are pretty close to their ages.

But when we went to watch our middle daughter, from this point forward referred to as "Mango" (because of the joke she and Greg have about her shampoo choice) in her kindergarten class, we were almost the oldest parents there. All these cute moms and dads with hip haircuts, wearing hip clothes, hip sunglasses...and all I could maybe be the most hip on was in fact, actual hips (maybe...I'm not ready to concede to that yet:-))

I have felt this before...and as much as I am enjoying all of the wisdom and mellowing (you know...all the inside stuff AND YES I DID SAY MELLOWING) that I feel I have done in the last 10 years, I can't say that I am ready to embrace this "look" of my outward appearance. I think I need to exercise..you know...tone up (have I said that before? It usually takes a few weeks of thought and discussion before I actually embark on some big lifestyle thing...it was the same with Atkins.)

"And it will only be worse when 'Todder' (this will, from this moment on, be the "name" for our youngest, as when you ask her if she is a baby, she says "No, my a todder") gets to kindergarten in four years." , I wail to my poor husband. While he is sympathetic, I think he thinks I am making too much of it (imagine!). And he thinks that some of what those young pups were wearing was "goofy"...

Yep...we're old.

But the real question is "Why do I care what they think?" Obviously, Greg thinks I am worth having around in my present state :-). My children think I am "soooooo pretty" (thanks, Todder and Mango) except when I am wearing my glasses and then I "look old" (thanks Darth---sigh). I think it is maybe the way I feel that I am regarded by those tanning-booth-strap-showing-smooth-skinned- younglings...like you might treat someone's mom...

"Yes, Mrs. Cleaver..."

It's probably not that way at all...probably just me. I was going through a few TT blogs yesterday and spent a little time at Loose Leaf Notes...Colleen and I were talking about blogs and how it feels when you don't get a bunch of hits and she said, "I think sometimes blogging can trigger our high school popularity program. You know, like no comments can feel like not getting picked to play."...

I think she's right. When we can control our environment, we can choose to be alone or with "our" group, but when we are out in the general public, we are subject to those feelings of the high school popularity contest. It's probably good to have those feelings come to the surface, though...because if they can come to the surface, they must have been somewhere deeper...hiding. Then we know on a conscious level that we have them and can decide whether to deal with them.

So, I am purposing...

to only take from the current trends the things that I think are cool and make me feel good about the change. Not silly or like I am trying to look 19...

to make sure I don't make any "goofy" changes that Greg doesn't find particularly attractive...

to think about who (and Who) will probably be in my life five years from now, and view their opinions as more important than those (real or imagined) the trendy passers-by...

But I still will start some kind of exercise pretty soon...Maybe when school lets out....in eight days.

All About Me:-)

OK, I just want to make sure that my big stories of interest don't get buried if you are looking for them...so If you want to read about the Singles Dance concept, click here. If you want to read about my romantic keeper of a husband, click here.

Now, on to the list that Kristina sent me at the beginning of the week.

I...am a child of God and a part of the Bride of Christ
I want...to act more like it.
I wish...my first impulses in most situations were ones that I would want others to emulate.
I hate...change.
I am..."the mom"...not the first in command in any venue, but I like to be the second.
I miss...my grandmother.
I hear...music in my head when I try to memorize scripture.
I wonder...if the things I think are so important now will matter in a year...five years...twenty years...
I can't imagine...not being able to sing or speak.
I regret...the times that I am not "in the moment".
I am not...easygoing:-)
I sing...whenever I get the chance.
I dance...ummmmmm..... no
I cry...when I am frustrated or feel betrayed.
I am not always...regimented.
I do have...many things to be thankful for.
I would...love to start over in the rearing of my children with what I know now.
I make...lots and lots of lists.
I write...when my thoughts are jumbled.
I confuse...the immediate with the improtant.
I know...that if I keep my priorities in line, I am a happier, more relaxed person.
I should...be exercising.
I start...lots of projects, but have difficulty with the follow-though.

Thanks Kristina...no one has ever asked me to do a list like that before...:-)

Thursday Thirteen and location of Baptist Boogie and Engagement Post

1. If you are looking for Baptist Boogie, scroll down to Tuesday May 9 post...not to be confused with May 9 1986...you will have to scroll wayyyyy down..
2. If you want to read the sweet story of my engagement anniversary, scroll down to Wednesday May 10 post.
3. Kristina :-) I am planning to do the list you sent me on Friday...


Thirteen Things that will make Angela go off her low carb diet



1…. Fried Okra
2. Apple Pie (any fruit pie)
3. Chocolate Pie (not that pudding kind...the melty brownie kind of one.)
4. Sourdough bread with Olive Oil to dip
5. Bread Pudding
6. Fried Chicken with Cream Gravy
7. Biscuits and Gravy
8. Key Lime Pie from Charleston's
9. Nicolette's Birthday Cake
10. Banana Bread
11. Apple Dumpling with that Cinnamon Sauce
12. Mocha Latte
13. Pecan Pie




Links to other Thursday Thirteens!


I want to remind you that this is something that ANYONE can do. And their thirteen may not be edifying...I am just trying to do a little networking. There were a few nice people who responded to my thirteen (or lack thereof) last week, BUT please do not link onto these and think they are all people that I know...I do not. Proceed at your own risk...and if after one full run (today) I decide that this is just not going to be worth it I will not do it again. Thanks!

I am using Mr. Linky today...Please leave a comment with your link. Thanks!


Get the Thursday Thirteen code here!


The purpose of the meme is to get to know everyone who participates a little bit better every Thursday. Visiting fellow Thirteeners is encouraged! If you participate, leave the link to your Thirteen in others comments. It’s easy, and fun! Be sure to update your Thirteen with links that are left for you, as well! I will link to everyone who participates and leaves a link to their 13 things. Trackbacks, pings, comment links accepted!

View More Thursday Thirteen Participants

May 9, 1986

OK, so I haven't talked about this, but there was something afoot this week.

I was supposed to go to a "meeting", but there was kind of a dress code and it was going to be a nice place for dinner...I kind of nosed around about it, but didn't get very far.

Seemed odd to me...

we were going talk about the Christmas Program, but at a nice restaurant...

and have folders (of all things)...at the table...

while eating...

at the fancy restaurant.

???????

Couldn't picture it...but "Point of the Blade" Pastor Norman has many times made things work where I saw no way...so I went with it.

Not sure who was coming besides Norman, his wife Denise, and me...

and Hester, I thought.

Hester (the admin.asst/general superhero)had been sick for a long time. And I felt that making her put together a bunch of folders with whatever else she had going was unnecessary. So...I offered to help.

She turned me down.

I worried that I might not be dressed appropriately.
And worried and worried...all week.
Poor Greg (my husband)...but he was a good sport. Let me get new shoes, some jewelry, etc. What a guy.

So the day before the Big Day comes...and I get an email (with some names of others) about the meeting.

"This is great!" I think to myself. "I will just be really junior high and see what some of them are wearing..."

So I email two of them (Suzy and Sarah) and get a response...nice...but they don't ask what I am wearing...

The Big Fancy Eating Place Meeting Day comes...I pretty much designate the day to Getting Ready...

That evening, Norman and Denise come to fetch me to the BFEP...I guess they are aware of my directional sense...

All along the way there is chatter chatter chatter about Christmas Plan 2006. Norman even has me get into his briefcase and get out "The Folders"...each labeled with a name...I give Denise to her and place mine on my lap.

Chatter Chatter....

When we arrive at the restaurant, Norman looks for a place to park...

(This restaurant, BTW, is not your standard "Thanks for Working With the Worship Ministry Dinner" place. It is fan-SAY. I wonder if I am dressed up enough. I think I am more dressed up than Norman and Denise so I decide I must be OK.)

Norman says, "I'm just going to let you girls out at the door", to which I think, "Well, good, because my hair won't make it in this wind".

Denise gets out, complains about her purse being too big to mess with and turns to put it back in the car. It was about the size of a tote that a teacher might take to school with her planner, graded papers etc, and don't get on to me about this reference because I used to carry one of those very bags but not to a BFEP...

So I wait for her. And I open the restaurant door. She walks in and I get the other door...she says, "After you..."

So I walk in. And she stays in the breezeway. So here I am, with a folder in my hand, standing in a fancy eating place and I see her standing in the breezeway through the frosted glass.

The hostess asked me if I have a reservation. "Well, I guess," I say. "But I'm actually with those people" and I gesture my head to the door. And I look over there and I no longer see a blurry form of Denise.

I see...

nothing.

The hostess stands there a minute and lets me stand there a minute (I am just figuring that Norman forgot his briefcase or something) and then she pulls out a HUGE bouquet of roses...and tells me that she will lead me to my table.

So she takes me through the labyrinth of rooms to a secluded table. And my sweet Greg is sitting there....

"What's going on here?" I say sweetly, feeling a little conspicuous with my folder and rose tree... (BTW, I was not holding said "rose tree"...the hostess was...I was holding my purse and a folder for a Christmas music planning meeting.) The hostess offers to take the HUGE Miss America type bouquet back to the front. I see no alternative, since there would be no room for food on the table...

He gestures me to sit, which I do.

"Are Norman and Denise coming?" I ask.

"I hope not" he says.

"What is going on?" I ask again.

"I just thought this might be a good time to reflect on our last 20 years together." he says.

Now here are two points of interest...
1. It is not our anniversary.
2. Before the birth of our first child (actually the night before my mother was coming to be here for the birth of our first child) I said to Greg (as we were watching TV)

"You know, this is our last night as a couple...tomorrow my mom will be here...then the baby will be here...we won't ever be "just us" again..."

You know...kind of reflecting...

Then he says, "Yeah...I guess you're right."

The end.

No "Oh, let's go out to dinner or a movie, because this will be our last opportunity as a couple..."

No "Well, what could we do that would make this final night special?"

Nothing... "Yeah, I guess you're right."

Sheesh.

So you can bet I brought that up a few hundred times.

So this was going to be a "time of reflection..." hmmmm

Greg says, "I would kind of like to go through each year and talk about what were the significant points."

Greg knows I can hardly remember last week, much less 1998...and I remind him of that little endearing quality of mine.

"It's OK, I made a list" says he.

A list of the high points of the last 20 years...wow.

So we eat dinner...work through the list...

At dessert (yes I had dessert...it was a special occasion:-)) we are at about 1988, then 1987...then at 1986 I think "May 1986...what was that????"

And I figured it out!

I was getting ready to go on a college Music Ministry trip for the summer. And before I left, Greg proposed...

"This is the day your proposed!" I blurt out.

"The happiest day of my life" he says...

I know...so sweet.

But THEN he pulls out a box. From BC Clark. And inside was a ring...but not just any ring...

See, about 5-6 years after we got married, I lost my engagement ring...I don't even know where or when. Why I took it off, I don't know.

I probably left it on the dresser and knocked it off and vacuumed it up the one time I vacuumed while we were in San Antonio...I just don't know. But it was gone. Good and gone.

I beat myself up about that alot.

Even as late as last week...

You know, he had got the diamond and put the ring together himself with a setting that he bought (he was kind of a jewelry maker in high school).

Anyway, I was thinking about it AGAIN last week.

Inside the box was a ring that bore a striking resemblance to my engagement ring. A yellow gold setting with an emerald cut diamond. Not exactly the same, but similar. This one has a couple of tapered diamonds flanking the sides of the main one, but it's very similar. And it makes me think of when we were 19 and 20, not even out of college, never been on our own, Greg not even started in medical school yet. We were babies...so young.

An evening to reflect on our married life together...and the 20th anniversary of our engagement.

So, you schemers, here's my thanks in order (I believe) of your involvement:-)

Norman
Denise
Hester
Tim-Sarah-Suzy

Thanks for helping Greg to pull it off...it was incredibly fun and such a surprise. You're the best.:-) Well, Greg's the best...you're the second best.

Baptist Boogie...

This didn't seem to be getting much play where it was, so I copied it and brought it over here to the highway which is my blog...if you are a Southern Baptist, I just wondered what you thought of it (the concept or any part of the article). It's from the website of James Hunt .:-)
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An Ex-Fundamentalist Goes Dancing

Well, I finally did it! The first time ever in my ministry that I promoted a dance.

I know, I know, I'm a little old fashioned...a little behind the times. Even during the 10 plus years of youth ministry I never had a dance.

I used to preach specifically against dancing! It was, after all, the first step toward pre-marital sex, or so I thought. How could a godly person be pure and holy if they were shaking their thing?

This past Saturday night our singles went to a "Christian Single's Dance" at a local community center. I promoted it...I went...I danced.

No bumping and grinding...no lewdness or impropriety was found. Instead, I saw people dancing and laughing together. It looked like a fellowship of people having a good time.

Now, I'm going to go over the top. We're going to host a Christ-centered Single's Dance at our new facility. We hope to put up the multi-colored globe light and get down and boogy...in a conservative fashion that would make momma proud, of course!

I kind of like my new-found freedom! In the words of Chuck Swindoll there's been a "Grace Awakening" in my life. I love it!

Interestingly, I'm finding that the farther I get away from the Pharisee that I used to be...the more at rest in Jesus I'm becoming. Again, I like it!

It's refreshing to finally be on the side of grace. It's a thing of abundant life to finally be free to dance! Thanks, King David, for paving the way. Thanks Jesus, for coming in the spirit of the flute and the dance. I'm finally appreciating your party!
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PS...(angela speaking)...The put-a-sheet-over-her-she-has-her-dress-up-over-her-head-police have arrived (Mike and Sherri:-)) to inform me that apparently we (people from our church) have been participating in these dances since before the paradigm shift. So, no yea or nay from them, just info. So it may be "new to you (and me)" but it is not "new"...

Half-Hearted Early Saturday Morning Attempt

OK, I am going to try to put the Mr. Linky deal here this morning...if you see it, you will know I got it.

Thursday Thirteen testing...oops, sorry!

OK, so I thought I might want to do this Thursday Thirteen thing. I even had a little Thursday Thirteen thingie up here...But when people started looking at it, I realized that I was going to have to enter each of their addresses into my post. And for those of you who know me, that will take me until NEXT Thursday, even if only 6 people come and check on me. So if you came here to read my thirteen, I am sorry...I think I am just going to bow out of that idea. If you want to leave your address or whatever, I will try to put them in this evening, because I think that was the arrangement. It does look fun, but I can see that it isn't going to be something easy for me to do. That's what happens when you get old...you try to keep up and it just doesn't happen. And I did try to figure out the Mr. Linky thing...I guess I need a tutorial or something.

1.Carmen
2.tlc
3.Moogie
4.angie (leave your link in comments, I’ll add you here!...be patient with me; I am still trying to figure this all out:-))

Now...that being said...I want the three of you who actually read this regularly to know that these sites and opinions in this Thursday Thirteen thing may or may not be ones that I would lead you by the hand to find. Much the same as if I were to hand you the remote to watch my television. So link up at your own risk. But I do think this could be a nice way to meet people and if I get some help on the Linky thing I may try it again...

And for those who are looking for my comments on the Amazing Race last night, I figured out that it was a non-elimination about halfway into the show. Next week is a one hour show, and then I am thinking the next week is the final week. So if next week is not the final week, we have to have 4 teams next week and the ONLY way that will happen is if no one was eliminated. Which was good because BJ did not have shoes on at the end when everyone was running to the mat. They would have deserved to lose, I'll just say right now. No shoes...sheesh.

Muffin Tops

OK, I was trying to think of something to write about that would be somewhat edifying. But I came across this phrase the other day (which probably means it is on it's way out it's been around so long)...and I can't get it out of my mind...

"muffin top"

Know what that is? It's if you are like me and trying to wear a lower rise jeans (because you can't come to terms with your middle-agedness) and if they don't fit you around the middle, part of your middle hangs over the top of the jeans...looking like the top of a muffin.

I was totally aghast at that....that there is a name for it, I mean. And so descriptive...I mean, that is just what it looks like.

Eeeeeeeek! I can hardly bear to think of it.

I have one pair of jeans that kind of does that...at least they look like they do that when I am looking at me in the mirror... Guess those are going in the "bub-bye" pile.

You know, I was reading another blog today...and noticing that the proprietor of the blog never references me in their blog, even though I know that they know me and know that I have a blog...

I wonder why that is...:-):-):-)

AMAZING RACE TRAILER:-)
Speaking of older people:-), Fran and Barry got the boot last week on Amazing Race. I know Ray and Yolanda make alot of errors, but let's pull for them and pull against Jeremy and Eric (and if you are watching, you know why) and those icky MoJo people. CBS tonight 7pm central time...

You Set My Heart A-flutter:-)

OK, so nothing against doctors or anything:-), but when you get someone to the hospital because you think that they might be having another heart attack and the doc says (not a quote) "It's heart flutters...we expected that he might have some of that" WHY DON'T THEY TELL THE FAMILY SOMETHING LIKE, "You might think he is having another heart attack, and certainly you should get him here like that's what it is because what if it is(???), but it might be "heart flutters" and that's not fatal. And we'll just give him some medicine for it if that's what it turns out to be" before he leaves the hospital the first time???????

Just seems like that might be something the family might want to know.

Anyway, Joe was having heart flutters...not a heart attack....Probably the best present Sherri will get all day (it's her birthday..."Happy Birthday, Girlfriend!!!").

Check back later...I may have something else when MY heart stops fluttering (glad you are OK, Joe:-) XO)

Please Pray

Sherri's dad, Joe, is having another heart attack. They are driving back to Tulsa now (6:30 am). If you are reading this, please stop now and say a prayer for Joe and the family. Thanks...

Thanks a Thousand:-)

Well, over the weekend, my hits made it over 1000...that is pretty cool...even if it is just my mom visiting over and over to get my numbers up (Actually, it was sitting at 998 and I did just go back a couple of time to make it go to 1000...nothing big happens...it's like one of those video games that you finish and all it does it roll credits...there should be a TA-DAH or something).:-) So, I wanted to draw everyone's attention to that, and to say thanks for your prayers for (coffee) Joe. I am sure he could still use any prayer you might offer up on his behalf, but he did go home yesterday.

My Grandpa (flowers) Bud is still in the hospital, and I think if he ever entertained the thought of just getting up and walking out of there over the last few days that is over:-). They took him on a "walk", which was just down the hall, and I think it was plenty for him. Greg said he looked good, though, which is good to hear.

I feel as though I am sitting at the top of the big hill on a roller coaster today...the final rehearsals for Swan Lake are the this week. I am one of the wranglers for my daughter's class tonight. Actually I was shocked that no one had signed up for tonight (you HAD to sign up for one sometime this week) because it is the shortest one. The curtain call, then the prologue (which is her big moment) and then we can go home. If you wait until later in the week (Thursday-Friday) you have to stay to the bitter end, because they run it all in order. I think God just kind of saved today back for me.

Last year the girls just ran amok when they were not on stage.

So this year, at least on MY watch, I am going to have something for them to do and then I am going to be the antithesis of the KoolAid mom and make them SIT DOWN in the room. I will have crayons and coloring books like everyone, but I am also going to experiment with pipe cleaners and beads so that they can make a little "creation" without glue, paint, etc. If you have ideas of other crafty things like this (non messy and not too difficult), they would be welcome. I think someone else is bringing a video one night.

So tonight, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday we will be Swan Lake-ing it...ours is such a life of culture (not:-)).