Shall We Dance? (Part 2)

If It's Not Fun for Everyone, It's Not Fun
(all italics are mine)

"Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall." Romans 14:19-21

(James Hunt's thoughts on this passage)
"He further instructed that we should all "pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another (v.19)...and that "it is not good to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles [context = stumbles means causes someone to stumble into sin] (v.21).Paul didn't say that he quit eating meat or that he quit drinking wine. That wasn't his point. The point - don't use your freedoms to another's spiritual detriment.Spiritual detriment / hindrance is the the issue on the table...not the comfort level of subjective preferences." James Hunt

I (Angela) am wondering about "pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another." (v.19).

Here's a thought...

"Everything is permissible", but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible", but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others. 1 Corinthians 10:23-24

or said another way:

"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth." 1 Corinthians 10:23-24

John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

"All things are lawful for me"
All sorts of food are lawful to be eaten, every creature of God is good, there is nothing common or unclean in itself, polluted or polluting; and so things offered to idols may be lawfully eaten, but not as such, or in an idol's temple, or before a weak brother; to do which is contrary to the honour of God, and the edification of the saints: and therefore

"all things are not expedient;"
to be done always, and in all places, and before all persons. The apostle suggests, that though they might be lawful to him, and he might make use of his liberty in eating them; yet they might not be expedient, or of service, but on the contrary hurtful to others; and which therefore ought to be judged a sufficient reason for the omission of them:

"all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not;"
though things of an indifferent nature may be lawfully used, yet they do not always tend to the edification of others, which should be consulted; and when this is the case, they ought to be disused. This is observed in answer to an objection taken from the doctrine of Christian liberty, allowing the free use of all the creatures, and disengaging men from an observance of the distinction of meats and drinks which the apostle grants; and yet argues from his own example, and the edification of the saints, that this is not always to be closely pursued; but believers should forego what they have a right to use, when the peace and welfare of their fellow Christians require it.

Matthew Henry
He (Paul)gives a caution against abusing our liberty in lawful things. That may be lawful which is not expedient, which will not edify. A Christian must not barely consider what is lawful, but what is expedient, and for the use of edification. A private Christian should do so even in his private conduct. He must not seek his own only, but his neighbour's wealth. He must be concerned not to hurt his neighbour, nay, he must be concerned to promote his welfare; and must consider how to act so that he may help others, and not hinder them in their holiness, comfort, or salvation. Those who allow themselves in every thing not plainly sinful in itself will often run into what is evil by accident, and do much mischief to others. Every thing lawful in itself to be done is not therefore lawfully done. Circumstances may make that a sin which in itself is none. These must be weighed, and the expediency of an action, and its tendency to edification, must be considered before it be done. Note, The welfare of others, as well as our own convenience, must be consulted in many things we do, if we would do them well.

Here are the bookends to the Romans 14 passage used at the beginning of this blog.

"Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convincedfood isno foodis unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

It is a general belief among Southern Baptists that social dancing, with all its trappings, is wrong. I plan to talk a little about this in my next post. But notice that Paul does not say, "Try to talk your brother out of this belief." Sometimes things are sins for one and not for another. And in our denomination, as a general rule, people don't approve.

Look at the words of Matthew Henry again:

"Those who allow themselves in every thing not plainly sinful in itself will often run into what is evil by accident, and do much mischief to others."

So, if it is fine for James and a group of the Singles in our church to dance, meaning that they do not feel that this opens the door to other naughty behavior for them (and that could absolutely be the case), I believe that these words from Paul apply:

So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. Romans 14:22 NIV

said another way,

You may have the faith to believe that there is nothing wrong with what you are doing, but keep it between yourself and God. Blessed are those who do not condemn themselves by doing something they know is all right. Romans 14:22 NLT

or like this,

What you believe about these things should be kept between you and God. You are fortunate, if your actions don't make you have doubts. Romans 14:22 CEV


So here is a question. We all (James, Rick, Kenny, Kristina, me) belong to the Southern Baptist denomination. As such, we can expect a few things (at least right this minute)
1. No wine at the Wednesday night dinner
2. No speaking in tongues at the Sunday morning service
3. No "falling out" in the Spirit.
4. No "night of miracles" healing service.
5. No praying for the baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues.
6. No snake handling.
7. No sprinkling baptism.
8. No prophetic word by church members in a worship service.
9. No social dances (see first sentence of the Oklahoma Baptist University position on dancing and Southern Baptists)
10. (if you have others, post them, and I will add)

If any of these were to change, it would seem that (because we and a few thousand other people joined Council Road Baptist Church with the understanding that it would have the values held in most Southern Baptist Churches), everyone should be made aware.

As I have stated before, when the CUBE was in the "idea" stage (and we were being asked to pay for it, as a gift to the community), there was no mention to the congregation that it would ever be used for social dances.

Maybe a Sunday night meeting that was well advertised to all with opportunities for questions after the presentation would be in order.(??)

In fact, if there was going to be a change in the character of our denomination (and it was obviously beneficial to the entire body to do so), it would seem that maybe a meeting with BGCO members would be a good idea. Not to get a "yea"or "nay", as I think our churches are run autonomously, but for support, as I think it would be an uphill climb to convince some of the pillars of the church that this was a good idea.

I found this(below) kind of interesting, when I was trying to get the real scoop on the topic of dancing in our denominations.

Christ Centered Colleges and Universities in Our Area

Southern Nazarene University
"Our sponsoring denomination, the Church of the Nazarene, has established principles designed to develop Christian character and promote growth in holy living. Therefore, these serve as guidelines for community life at SNU. Specifically, entertainment (including media productions) that promotes the violent, the sensual, the pornographic, the profane, or the occultic should be avoided.
Also included is an expectation that SNU students avoid social dancing. SNU and its member organizations are not to provide, sponsor, or conduct social dances on or off campus. Attendance at establishments or activities at which such behavior is the focus is prohibited."(SNU Student Handbook)

Oklahoma Baptist University
"(6)Dancing
The traditional position of Oklahoma Southern Baptist churches is reflected by University policy which prohibits dancing on campus. University organizations may not sponsor dances off campus." The Green Book- OBU Student Handbook

Oklahoma Christian University
"Many expectations of OC students are biblically based. Others expectations, while not necessarily based on scripture, are necessary for the good of the entire community. These expectations enable the community to function and operate peaceably and in harmony with each other and the mission of the University.

Undergraduate students are especially susceptible to certain temptations in today's society. For the sake of a healthy lifestyle and their Christian influence (Philippians 2:3-4; Romans 14:19-22a) we believe that students should completely avoid these temptations at all times and in all places.We take the following expectations quite seriously and are diligent in enforcing them on campus or at any University-related event."

"9.Dancing on campus or at University sanctioned activities."

These college students are not supposed to be dancing socially. I do not know whether the Singles Ministry in our church is inviting the University students, but after looking at our church website, it is evident that the University Ministry falls under Singles.

If this activity, being held at our church, is beneficial to the Body of Christ, maybe our church leadership should go before these Christ Centered schools and explain their position, so that the students would have the opportunity to participate in this church activity.

Again, I will say that I think dancing is a gray area. I think it is not an individual choice (a freebie from God), but something that is between the individual and God. Apparently Paul felt the same way when he said (about issues of liberty):

"So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God." Romans 14:22a

If, after thinking about it, praying about it, searching out the Scriptures, a person feels that God has given His blessing on that person attending social dances with Christ centered sacred and secular music (or any other kind of dance, I guess), he/she should be able to attend such an animal at an institution where the members believe it is beneficial and edifying for all Believers to attend and dance in the spirit of fellowship. (All Believers who have not signed a code of conduct that ways they aren't supposed to dance socially.)

I think that this was the situation when the dance was at the Warr Acres Community Center. I don't understand why it is now being sponsored by our church, at the CUBE community center. Maybe they should have the dance there...

Coming Soon!
Shall We Dance? Part 3